why there is so much animosity

Ache woman get a life, it's called free speech. By the way, what you consider "rude" is not particularly rude in my opinion...

Too often we see people asking questions just because they are too lazy to read manuals. I got the knowledge from the books, and someone is cutting corners hoping for a quick answer from me. And that someone will come back soon enough with another question the answer to which will be in the same book he hasn't read.
That's irritating.
It's not necessary to be rude, though. It's sufficient to refer the OP to the manual in a neutral tone, I guess.

It's not necessary to be rude, though. It's sufficient to refer the OP to the manual in a neutral tone, I guess.

neutral, maybe, what is wrong with straight?

The source of the 'rudeness' is the many newbies that when referred to e.g. "the bible" just ask the same question again.

anyhow, I read through the thread where the OP in this thread first posted and see quite a bit of 'directness', but 'rudeness', OH COME ON!

Erik

Agreed. I read the thread too, wouldn't quite call it 'rude.'
If someone is so easily offended, maybe they should avoid the World Wide Web altogether.

why is there so much animosity

Because so many newbies come strutting in here with no idea what they'te talking about, but utterly full of themselves. And because those people can't be bothered with even the minimum level of professional courtesy, like:

1) following the very clear instructions found on this very posting form about stuff like formatting source code
2) selecting the right architecture from the list box (you failed at that)
3) showing at least some evidence of having consulted the bloody manual before posting here
4) describing problems at least a bit more usefully than the proverbial "My car won't start, so what's wrong with it?"
5) reacting to counter-questions at least a bit more usefully than the proverb's continuation: "What do you mean, you can't tell over the phone?!"
6) checking at least superficially if this is even the right forum to ask in, before doing so
7) trying not to be the 50th person to ask the exact same question

i didn't see any straight answers or clear reference to anything that these guys have given.

"These guys" being who in partiular? You posted this entirely out of context.

And it's not exactly our fault if it took three kicks in the pants until the guy you're most likely referring to could finally be persuaded to crack open the document containing his answer.

What you perceive as animosity from the regulars is actually mostly self-defense in the face of newbies' constant rudeness.

Is there not a way to post a sticky at the top to tell people what information they need to provide and what they should try first? At this point, people who come to the forums might not know what to expect, what to provide, etc. You guys have been doing this for a long time, I'm sure, so a lot of this may be obvious to you but it's not always obvious to the average user.

There's a difference between not knowing and being lazy and I think that might be a cause of many of the similar questions you get tired of answering. Maybe Keil can setup a "Read First Before Posting" link like this one:

" href= "http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html">www.catb.org/.../smart-questions.html

At the end of the day, it's really up to you guys how you handle it as you guys are the experts but I still think there's a difference between ignorance and laziness. Lazy people deserve the tongue lashings but to assume anyone who posts here that doesn't give enough information (when there's no link telling people what they need to provide for people to help them) is probably a little bit much.

But yeah, just adding a sticky page could cut down on dumb questions and give people no reason for ignorance in posts. Everyone wins. Unless you enjoy giving everyone tongue lashings (but I guess you can do that either way if you so choose).

Like I said, ultimately it's your call as you guys are the ones providing support. I'm just throwing this out there.

On a sidenote, thanks for the help.

To be fair, it might be helpful to have a link that says before asking a question to go to:

www.8052.com/.../120112

and read the bible chapters. Honestly, I didn't even know those links existed until you pointed me that direction. If you told everyone to start there before posting, it could probably save you guys some time and frustration.

There is already information "at the top" which is routinely ignored:

www.danlhenry.com/.../keil_code.png

"I still think there's a difference between ignorance and laziness"

Indeed there is. But, when you just don't know something, it is easy enough to show that you've made an effort to find out.

If you told everyone to start there before posting, it could probably save you guys some time and frustration.

Given the "success" this forum is having with information placed right there between the place where you enter the subject and the place where you enter your text, which is even marked-up in bold already, I estimate the probability of that having any effect to be indistinguishable from zero.

I completely agree with you on that one and I do think people should try to solve their problems first or at least do the minimum amount of research before posting. I just don't think everyone knows to mention what it is they tried or what resources they've consulted prior to posting. It doesn't necessarily mean they didn't do the research though.

Yes, that may be true. But, if you've spent time studying, researching, debugging, etc, why would you not mention that?

Why would you then just post, "My car doesn't work - what's wrong with it?"

Is it not obvious that anyone else is going to need the background information, symptoms, etc, to be able help with that?

Is it not obvious that nobody knows what your car is if you don't tell them?

I'm afraid experience suggests that, in 98% of cases, it it isn't mentioned, it wasn't done.

:-(

Indeed.

And it's little or no different on other forums which do have a "Read This First" and/or "FAQ" and/or whatever.

:-(

The truth here is that a significant percent of people posting questions on forums are very lazy. They could find their answers within minutes by using Google or some alternative search engine.

But that requires them to read. And they also assume that maybe any answers they find aren't applicable to them. So they want customized answers only for them.

One guy who posted on this forum specifically thought that since he payed for Internet, he had the _right_ to demand answers.

For some reason, lots of people don't have the ability to realize that it is other people who do write the answers. And that it takes time to write answers. And that we aren't motivated to write any answers if we don't feel it is giving _us_ something back. Writing the same answer that Google turns up 200 hits of really does not give us any satisfaction. It only wastes our time.

Might be fun the first time. Not the tenth or hundredth time you see the same - or almost same - question asked.

Who, exactly, is the "you" there?

This forum is owned & maintained by Keil - not by the contributors.

The forum is supposed to be for discussions about Keil products, but the vast majority of questions have nothing to do with Keil - hence it's probably not high on Keil's priority list...

It doesn't necessarily mean they didn't do the research though.

I think utter cluelessness isn't quite as hard to spot as you assume.

One can usually tell if someone just didn't care to describe the full depth of his own investigation performed before posting here, or if there simply was no depth to speak of.