why is there so much animosity
one could easily see that the so called seniors are very rude. this guy might be wrong with the title of his post but than this is what he probably thought. Just because you know something doesn't mean that you have to be rude to others as it must have taken long time for you guys to learn.i didn't see any straight answers or clear reference to anything that these guys have given.
be nice to newbies as once you were also one
Too often we see people asking questions just because they are too lazy to read manuals. I got the knowledge from the books, and someone is cutting corners hoping for a quick answer from me. And that someone will come back soon enough with another question the answer to which will be in the same book he hasn't read. That's irritating. It's not necessary to be rude, though. It's sufficient to refer the OP to the manual in a neutral tone, I guess.
It's not necessary to be rude, though. It's sufficient to refer the OP to the manual in a neutral tone, I guess.
neutral, maybe, what is wrong with straight?
The source of the 'rudeness' is the many newbies that when referred to e.g. "the bible" just ask the same question again.
anyhow, I read through the thread where the OP in this thread first posted and see quite a bit of 'directness', but 'rudeness', OH COME ON!
Erik
Agreed. I read the thread too, wouldn't quite call it 'rude.' If someone is so easily offended, maybe they should avoid the World Wide Web altogether.
Is there not a way to post a sticky at the top to tell people what information they need to provide and what they should try first? At this point, people who come to the forums might not know what to expect, what to provide, etc. You guys have been doing this for a long time, I'm sure, so a lot of this may be obvious to you but it's not always obvious to the average user.
There's a difference between not knowing and being lazy and I think that might be a cause of many of the similar questions you get tired of answering. Maybe Keil can setup a "Read First Before Posting" link like this one:
" href= "http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html">www.catb.org/.../smart-questions.html
At the end of the day, it's really up to you guys how you handle it as you guys are the experts but I still think there's a difference between ignorance and laziness. Lazy people deserve the tongue lashings but to assume anyone who posts here that doesn't give enough information (when there's no link telling people what they need to provide for people to help them) is probably a little bit much.
But yeah, just adding a sticky page could cut down on dumb questions and give people no reason for ignorance in posts. Everyone wins. Unless you enjoy giving everyone tongue lashings (but I guess you can do that either way if you so choose).
Like I said, ultimately it's your call as you guys are the ones providing support. I'm just throwing this out there.
On a sidenote, thanks for the help.
There is already information "at the top" which is routinely ignored:
www.danlhenry.com/.../keil_code.png
"I still think there's a difference between ignorance and laziness"
Indeed there is. But, when you just don't know something, it is easy enough to show that you've made an effort to find out.
I completely agree with you on that one and I do think people should try to solve their problems first or at least do the minimum amount of research before posting. I just don't think everyone knows to mention what it is they tried or what resources they've consulted prior to posting. It doesn't necessarily mean they didn't do the research though.
Yes, that may be true. But, if you've spent time studying, researching, debugging, etc, why would you not mention that?
Why would you then just post, "My car doesn't work - what's wrong with it?"
Is it not obvious that anyone else is going to need the background information, symptoms, etc, to be able help with that?
Is it not obvious that nobody knows what your car is if you don't tell them?
I'm afraid experience suggests that, in 98% of cases, it it isn't mentioned, it wasn't done.
:-(
It doesn't necessarily mean they didn't do the research though.
I think utter cluelessness isn't quite as hard to spot as you assume.
One can usually tell if someone just didn't care to describe the full depth of his own investigation performed before posting here, or if there simply was no depth to speak of.
I completely agree with you on that one and I do think people should try to solve their problems first or at least do the minimum amount of research before posting sure, but what about those that post "how do I do x" get a reply "it is described in y" and then post "how do I do x".