35% smaller, and 14% faster code!

I don't think anyone is contradicting you. Erik is also using the Keil compiler. Most probably because he wants to, and not because he is forced to.

I have currently done a bit of Pic programming, using the Microchip compiler since Keil doesn't support that architecture. The "nice" compiler doesn't even support the full grammar... And at least one construct where it failed to produce a binary - currently unknown if the error is in the compiler or the linker.

We developers do like good tools - it's just that our definition of good (and what kind of tools we prefer) varies with previous experiences and with type of products we develop. A one-man project has different requirements than a 100-man project. A life-sustaining equipment has different requirements than a set-top box. The people developing the set-top box would never manage to finish their product if they had to guarantee the reliability according to the standards needed of a pace-maker.

Because of the different needs, debates about A _or_ B often results in heated debates that doesn't lead to one or he other side switching opinion and most of the time without making any readers switch position either. Debates that focus on comparing two alternatives have a lot better chance to make people listen and try the alternative, since the debate isn't about right or wrong but about how one tool can complement another, or (if the discussion isn't between combatants) leads to information how users of tool A (who can't afford tool B) can find reasonable workarounds to still be productive.

I don't think anyone is contradicting you. Erik is also using the Keil compiler. Most probably because he wants to, and not because he is forced to.

I have currently done a bit of Pic programming, using the Microchip compiler since Keil doesn't support that architecture. The "nice" compiler doesn't even support the full grammar... And at least one construct where it failed to produce a binary - currently unknown if the error is in the compiler or the linker.

We developers do like good tools - it's just that our definition of good (and what kind of tools we prefer) varies with previous experiences and with type of products we develop. A one-man project has different requirements than a 100-man project. A life-sustaining equipment has different requirements than a set-top box. The people developing the set-top box would never manage to finish their product if they had to guarantee the reliability according to the standards needed of a pace-maker.

Because of the different needs, debates about A _or_ B often results in heated debates that doesn't lead to one or he other side switching opinion and most of the time without making any readers switch position either. Debates that focus on comparing two alternatives have a lot better chance to make people listen and try the alternative, since the debate isn't about right or wrong but about how one tool can complement another, or (if the discussion isn't between combatants) leads to information how users of tool A (who can't afford tool B) can find reasonable workarounds to still be productive.

Per,

I too have recently used the Microchip C compiler.

The Keil C51 compiler certainly has it's quirks; but compared to the Microchip "nice" compiler and it's quirks, my opinion is that the Keil is more predictable in it's output and therefore preferable.

Now I have had the opportunity to migrate across to the Keil ARM compiler. One comment from me with regards to the compiler - Absolutely lovely!

I am a Keil user, have been for many years and still believe that it is the best tool for the '51 developments that I have been involved it.
so do I. But is there anything wrong with wanting 'the best' better.
I have no problems whatsoever with the optimizations provided by Keil (they are optional and I do not use them) I just want another level where some are implemented and the "debuggability killers" are not.

Someone above talked about "debugging by printf". That will work in many cases, but in "my world" where everything hangs on nanoseconds, inserting a time consuming call can make the "debug aid" a bug.

Erik