We are running a survey to help us improve the experience for all of our members. If you see the survey appear, please take the time to tell us about your experience if you can.
I want to buy an evaluation board for my masters project.
1. The programming should be stored in flash not EEPROM. 2. The compiler should be launched from command line (passing the source code file as parameter) 3. The uploading the resulting object code to the evaulation board should be via command line (i.e. no visual interface because the source code files will be sent for compilation over internet). 4. and preferably it should be 8051.
is this possible with any of the evaluation boards/emulators available here?
"1. The programming should be stored in flash not EEPROM."
EEPROM = Electrically Erasable PROM; Flash is a type of EEPROM.
Did you mean, "not UV-EPROM"?
"The compiler should be launched from command line (passing the source code file as parameter)"
The compiler is completely separate from the board! Buying any particular board will not tie you to any particular compiler, and vice-versa.
"no visual interface because the source code files will be sent for compilation over internet"
There is no reason why files sent over the internet should not be used in conjunction with a visual interface!
"and preferably it should be 8051."
It's usually better to start with your project requirements and then identify a suitable processor, rather than fix the processor and try to force it to meet your requirements!
"is this possible with any of the evaluation boards/emulators available here?"
Yes, the Keil tools can be command-line driven
First of all, thank you for your reply.. I really appreciate helping me in this matter.
Here is a quick review of the system to understand my requirements: 1. the kit will be connected to unattended host pc. I.e. no user will be using this pc. 2. system user will connect to the host pc and send the source code files via internet for compilation, downloading to kit, running the software and then posting back the results via a web camera module. Also, I want to be able to send back the status of the kit and any other useful info like ports status,..etc
My requirements: 1. Flash memory: I want to be able to program the kit without need to use any external device like UV Burner. I want to be able to download my code directly from the pc to the kit. 2. Tools: all tools should be command line including the tool for downloading the object code to the flash. Again, the host machine will be unattended and every task should be done from windows service or an application without user interface. 3. 8051: this is because my previous experience during collegue (I.e. 5 years back :) ) was using 8051. and I didn't want to spend time learning a new MCU even if it's better as long as there is an 8051 kit that can satisfies my requirements.
Again, Thank you
1. the kit will be connected to unattended host pc. I.e. no user will be using this pc.
Unless the network connection is severly limited in terms of bandwidth (i.e. 56k modem or slower), there are plenty of solutions that will give you access to the graphical interface of the host PC over the internet. Some versions of Windows come with this functionality built-in, even. Other systems can use a solution like VNC.
However, since most IDEs are just front-ends for command-line tools (compiler, linker, etc), basically any compiler can be used as a command-line tool.
1. Flash memory: I want to be able to program the kit without need to use any external device like UV Burner. I want to be able to download my code directly from the pc to the kit.
Any recent evaluation kit will satisfy this.
"2. system user will connect to the host pc..."
What/who is the "system user"?
"...send the source code files via internet for compilation..."
Why would you want to send the source files for remote compilation?
Surely, it'd be far better for the developer to do the build locally on his/her own machine, and just send the resulting executable image for downloading?
This is going to be a very cumbersome way to develop 8051 applications!
With the enormous price (not!) of evaluation boards, it is quite common that the universities lends out evaluation boards, so that students can sit at home and develop their applications.
Then it is enough to either upload the final binary or to travel to the university and on-site demonstrate the completed project.
The only time when this concept does not work, is when using commercial licenses that requires onsite usage. But in that case, the license may already forbid the sharing of a single computer by a large number of students.
Don't Keil do special deals for educational institutions...?
Even if Keil don't, I'm sure others do...
Or, if compiler cost is such an issue, how about SDCC - it's free! http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/
"Remote laboratories: how to enable students to access labs hardware via internet."
That's my emphasis - is that actually what your project requires? ie, there is no requirement for the tools to be remote - just the target hardware?
Test equipment with remote control has been available for a long time now - but, typically, the development tools like compilers, etc, remain on the developer's local PC.
Keil uVision accesses the target hardware via AGDI -its debug interface. Unfortunately, the description seems to be missing at the moment - see: http://www.keil.com/forum/docs/thread11306.asp therefore you will have to contact Keil direct to request details.
It should be here: http://www.keil.com/appnotes/list/uvision.htm
I would suggest that you provide a "driver" compatible with this interface for your "remote debugging"
"how much does the commercial compilers cost?"
You would obviously have to direct that question direct to Keil themselves!
"the good news that (as per my understanding) all evaluation kits satisfies my conditions."
No, that's not true - there are still plenty of kits available that rely upon UV EPROMs.
You need to ensure that whatever you buy specifically supports In-System Programming (ISP)
And that the hardware doesn't require someone to press a 'Reset' button on the board before starting the transfer - or that you have hardware in the PC to remotely control any reset buttons, or any strap fields that may be meaningful to change depending on usage.
the best learnng protoboards are the SILabs boards because of the "free ICE". Nothing is more educational than the ability to look "under the hood".
you may get it REAL cheap www.silabs.com/.../universityprogram.htm
Erik
PS if you want the users to be able to function in the real world stick to the derivatives (f0x, f1x, f2x) and stay away from the deviates (f3x - up)
"the best learnng protoboards are the SILabs boards because of the 'free ICE'"
Do you know if SiLabs have any support for accessing the 'free ICE' remotely?
I remember back in the days of Triscend that its JTAG 'free ICE' could be accessed remotely on networked PCs:
LAN =====+=============================+======== | | +----+----+ +----+----+ | | | | | PC1 | | PC2 | | | | | +----+----+ +---------+ | | JTAG
PC1 has the direct connection to the target's JTAG; PC2 has access to PC1's JTAG connection via the LAN.
I have no idea, being a member of the cleaning ladies trade union.
However, if one PC on a LAN can speak to a USB or serial device on another PC on the LAN without 'knowing' it goes through the LAN, it will definitely work. I know from the SILabs forum that some update software on SILabs chips via a LAN. Also the f12x devboard has a daughterboard and at a SILabs seminar I set that combo up as a LAN devidce in abt 15 minutes.
Yes, the SiLabs EC2 "ICE" can be used remotely. I have a commercial package called RADMIN to access the remote PC. I'm sure the OP has similiar software to remote to his Lab. I have used both the SiLabs IDE and a Keil eval package at the remote PC to program the SiLabs 'deviant' device. Not for compiling just for downloading. I send the Hex file to a known disk folder and then connect to the EC2 for program download. I have left the EC2 connected for several days at a time but I always worry about noise glitches so I have someone to disconnect the EC2 after the Debug session. I chose the RADMIN package because it's cheap and easy to use. I have full control of the remote PC including the GUI screens. I don't use command lines, just point and click. The SiLabs EC2 allows stop, start and reset via the GUI. It has been over a year since I last used the package because everything seems to be up and running. (fingers crossed, fingers crossed). I agree with Erik that the OP should look carefully at the SiLabs eval packages for a strong developement systems. Bradford
Andy, I am very disappointed to read your comment "There's still plenty of old crocks out there" and really confused about it. If you want to help (and I will appreciate it), then stop these stupid and useless comments. But if you want to show off, go somewhere else to show off your knowledge.
erik, Thank you for the kit. I think this is exactly what I was looking for. I will contact them and keep you updated.
Bradford, slow down.. what is EC2? what is OP?
Regarding using GUI remoting, it's not an option. I want the user (the student) to have access through a browser. I will build a simple IDE and GUI compiler in my web site using Adobe Flash or Microsoft Silverlight or Ajax (not decided yet). That's why I want all the functionalities to be done through command line (or Dll calling).
you will say: why the bother? that's because the whole idea is built around not downloading any application to the student pc. The student can write source code, compile, download and run the lab from any computer (like internet cafe or university lab pc) without having administrative privileges to install the software.
Andy, I am very disappointed to read your comment "There's still plenty of old crocks out there" ... I am sure Andy refer to the antique 'devboards' with 8255s on them that some 'schools' use to give the poor sods totally worthless knowledge.
erik, Thank you for the kit. I think this is exactly what I was looking for. I will contact them and keep you updated. you are welcome
Bradford, slow down.. what is EC2? what is OP? EC2 is a SILabsa debug adaptger, OP is the "Original Poster"