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I was hoping to find on-line manuals that I could print and read on the john. So far no luck. But what I really need is how to declare variables in C.
For example, I have a sample code that has the statement:
unsigned char
and
unsigned long
What do these mean and do they limit the declaration to integers. What do i declare if I want a floating point?
Also, someone told me I cant do floating point with a Keil Compiler because of licensing issues (I got my copy from Silicon Labs and have just registered it). I will eventually need to do trig functions. What do i have to get (buy) to complete my project?
I've been doing micro-controllers for 30+ years in assembly language. Sure, my experience is probably limited compared to you guys but give me a break. I admitted ignorance about C and ask for guidance and I create an argument?
That wasn't really an argument, more a lively discussion. The advice you got (get a copy of K&R and H&S) was spot on - it won't take long to get familiar with the basics of 'C' with K&R, H&S will answer any remaining questions you have.
I'd like to think I have the brains to figure out advantages vs disadvantages. Seems to me C was invented to get the job done fast and not efficient. My plans are, if needed, to optimize the code after the feasibility study.
I'd have said "C was invented to get the job done faster than assembly language and as efficiently as possible for a high level language".
Furthermore, from what I can tell, there must be better solutions than that offered by Keil, anyhow.
I'm not going to offer an opinion, but my impression from what I read is that Keil is probably the tool of choice if you wish to program the 8051 using 'C'.
I just bought the development package thru Silicon Labs and Keil doesn't want to support it and I am having difficulty ascertaining what I must spend to lift it's 4K limits.
From the sound of things you really bought a development board from Silicon Labs and it came with the trial version of the toolchain, or possibly a slightly enhanced trial version. You can't really expect to get a few thousand dollars worth of software for a hundred bucks.
Sharpening knives...
I'd like to think of it as Keil's loss. I'm going somewhere else if there is an option. I am sure there is an option. Like assembly language, lookup tables, and not Keil. Who needs to be part of the C community after this?
Anybody know of other development systems IO can consider to use with the Silicon Labs EVAL Kit? I've heard of http://www.avocetsystems.com.
Seems to me C was invented to get the job done fast and not efficient.
C was designed to be as close to the silicon as you can get without using assembly, actually. Hence, programs in C _can_ be very efficient.
Did you contact your local distributor of Keil products? He should be more than happy to provide you with a quote.
Well, how 'bout that. A fan.
Thanks for your comments. I'll have to put those in my scrapbook.
I'm at Renco Encoders now doing other strange stuff. Working on a real neat encoder solution. So simple I am surprised no one has thought of it. Well, maybe they have, I just cant uncover it.
Maybe I'll have one last hurrah before exiting ;)
In another forum there was a "which '51 compiler is bast" thread and several SDCC users stated "Keil is best" an IAR user stated "I think Keil is better". NONE stated that another product was better than Keil '51.
Erik
I'd like to think of it as Keil's loss. I'm going somewhere else if there is an option.
Hmmm. For someone with 30 years of experience in the field you seem to have an awfully light trigger. Running away like a startled deer, just because you witnessed a bit of banter among other users of the tool, and even "liking" that? Get real, mon.
I've been doing micro-controllers for 30+ years in assembly language. Sure, my experience is probably limited compared to you guys but give me a break.
On what basis should we have done that? Read your own OP again, slowly. What in there would make you guess that the author is anything other than a complete newbie on his first microcontroller project ever?
Calling that conclusion premature would be doing it an unjustified favour.
I am having difficulty ascertaining what I must spend to lift it's 4K limits. What crap.
crap? crap? I believe this is a feature of most commercial tool chains. what did you expect exactly? the source code along with the eval. binaries? and another thing: I also have expressed criticism here in the past regarding the tool chain and some of its extentions (FlashFS...) but you would not see me here calling it names like "crap". you give us a break - now often have you used the product to make sure a statement?
I meant: "such a statement?"
Sorry.
"crap" was referring the whole situation and not to the Keil product.
Perhaps my frustration should be directed towards Silicon Labs as they are the ones that sold me a development kit with a crippled Keil product.
Last embedded project I did, the manufacturer supplied the evaluation board and the development system (equivalent to Keil) all included for $79. Came with everything I needed to finish the project and we are in production. That is what I expected FROM SILICON LABS (emphasis - not shouting). I was wrong to blame Keil.
What I did not expect was the fight that insued herein because of my initial stupid questions, that, BTW, were promptly answered by the first poster.
I am sorry if I offended anybody. I am sure my comments could have been misinterpretted. I do favor assembly language over higher level languages and my comments about "waste" and "inefficiencies" are my opinion only and based on my beliefs. This was going to be my first C based project.
In my experience (only 25 years, I'm afraid), it is standard practice that the tools supplied with "dev kits" are just "evaluation" versions.
And free "evaluation" versions are always "crippled" in some way or another.
(in fact, I think the SiLabs kit gives you a slightly less limited version than the "standard" free evaluation?)
The exception is the single-source proprietary architectures like PIC and AVR - where the chip maker knows that the tools are useless with any chips other than their own. Therefore the tools can simply be considered as part of the marketing budget!
And free "evaluation" versions are always "crippled" in some way or another.<p>
"Ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
;)
And so we live in two different worlds. I have learned much. Thanks.
Good point. I said nothing about free. It cost me 79 buck-a-roos. ;)
and my comments about "waste" and "inefficiencies" are my opinion only and based on my beliefs. This was going to be my first C based project.
I think everybody moving from asm to C had such beliefs initially. After a while you learn that C is the way to go where nominal "waste and inefficiencies" do not matter and the percentage where (you think) it matters (and you write an assembly module) will be constantly shrinking, but - in my opinion, never go to zero.