Memory for XC167

Mike you never answered
How much code memory?

Erik

Dude, Im doing the hardware............Not a software engineer...........I have no Idea.........I'll ask if you really want to know........LOL

code memory and data memory is hardware, one is EEPROM/flash, the other is RAM.

Erik

As long as all his memory fits in the 16M address space, how does this help determine if the processor is adequate? You don't seem to care how the code is divided into tasks, the periodic rate of each task and how long each task takes to execute. This is the information is required to help determine if the processor has enough bandwidth.

Your first post declares "if you need 12Mbyte, I think you are in deep doo-doo" and you second one "ONCE MORE if you need 12Mbyte, you have chosen the wrong processor". All this based on two facts, 1)He is using the XC167 and 2)he is using 12Mbytes of RAM.

Your simplistic approach may work for small applications where all the code is executed in a single task but not all systems are designed that way, in fact I suspect that few if any applications for the XC167 are that simple.

-Walt

I am not talking about "simple" tasks, nothing could be farther from my mindset. I am talking about REAL time, not the friggin "real enough" time some think has a place in control apps.

The processor group we talk about here are quite sloppy at many things and excellent at others. So called multitasking definitely is not in their area of excellence.

If you need 12MB of code, you are either multitasking (bad choice of processor) or having such a mess that you are, indeed in big doo-doo.

I know that you can MAKE these processors jump through hoops. That you can drive from NY to LA on a bicycle does not make it the right choice, whereas if you deliver small goods in NY a bicycle is an excellent choice.

You evidently are of the school "I like this processor, I WILL use it and MAKE it do what I want". That is your choice, it definitely is not mine. Do not take this as me having anything against it, I will gladly use it if it is the right choice and 12MB makes that very unlikely, albeit remotely poissible. Thus I question the choice, and if you have a problem with me questioning it why do you even read a forum?. Do I state "I think, if this does not offend you, that there is an itty bitty cahnce that you may have chosen wrong, but that is just my opinion" or such wimpy s*** NO.

Erik

You evidently are of the school "I like this processor, I WILL use it and MAKE it do what I want".

Not at all, I have no idea if the XC167 processor is the right choice for their application and neither do you. We just don't have enough information to say. The arrogance of you making statements like "ONCE MORE if you need 12Mbyte, you have chosen the wrong processor" without knowing anything else about their system is getting very old.

If you need 12MB of code, you are either multitasking (bad choice of processor) or having such a mess that you are, indeed in big doo-doo.

Have you used this processor? Its interrupt controller makes priority based preemptive multitasking a breeze using the timer module. No kernel needed. This statement leads me to believe you know nothing about the capabilities of the processor.

if you have a problem with me questioning it why do you even read a forum?

I read this forum because I learn a lot from it. It's a shame that people like you have to second guess every design that does not fit the mold that you are used to. Questioning something is one thing, but constantly assuming that no one else can make a right choice unless it passes your litmus test is what I find annoying.

I am done responding to this thread, if you cannot see my point by now it is pointless to continue.

-Walt

I refer to my earlier post about managing software engineers... The original question was about memory ICs for a 16 bit controller? I recently used a 128kx32 SRAM from IDT(can be used as x16), you might check their catalog. I too have a hat that says hardware on it and I follow the general rule of laying out the PCB to provide all the memory the CPU can use and then populating during assembly as desired. That is unless the application specifically calls for less than the maximum( say rev3 going to production..)
Good luck.

Not at all, I have no idea if the XC167 processor is the right choice for their application and neither do you. We just don't have enough information to say. The arrogance of you making statements like "ONCE MORE if you need 12Mbyte, you have chosen the wrong processor" without knowing anything else about their system is getting very old.

If me questioning the wisdom of 12 MB with the amount of information provided is arrogant, then your statement it is wise is equally arrogant.

You call it arrogance, I call it questioning the wisdom. If the OP not someone that think I may be wrong convince me that what I post does not match a given app I will gladly retract.

If you read this thread, you will see that I constantly ask "how much code memory" and get no answer so, it could be that a board without code memory is being constructed and I will suspect so till the OP not some do-gooder convince me otherwise.

Years ago, I posted things like "I want to make sure ... It could be ... I think" and in many cases the result was that at a later time the same poster posted "it does not work because"

Thus I will much rather have you (who may know the uC vert well) get mad at me for being blunt that lead someone astray with vague posts.

If you have a problem with me stating my opinions, I suggest you state your opinions on the subject of the thread rather than your opinion of me.

Erik

"It's a shame that people like you have to second guess every design that does not fit the mold that you are used to. Questioning something is one thing, but constantly assuming that no one else can make a right choice unless it passes your litmus test is what I find annoying."

I couldn't agree more with this.

So Erik, what's the upper limit on RAM for this processor? What's the maximum latency before 'real time' becomes 'real enough time'?

So Erik, what's the upper limit on RAM for this processor? What's the maximum latency before 'real time' becomes 'real enough time'?
1) I think you get one thing wrong "real enough time" is worse than real time. It is an exprtession invented by the URTOS developers to excuse the sluggedness of their creations. The maximim latency is waht the developer know (s)he can live with, NOT what some URTOS developer has decided.

2) the upper limit for any processor is "what you need"

Now to answer what you really ask
I question everything that is not "typical" unless it is qualified. Not becuase it does not "fit my mold" but because - as seen in the C to asm thread where you had to question an excellent suggestion from Andy - that nobody knows what the app is when the OP does not state so.

Thus if it is "unusual" and no reason is given I try to provoke an answer. Due to your cuddeling no answer has yet come forth from the OP in this thread.

I find it wrong to let someone trundle along and make a board with 12M of RAM if all they need is a few hundered k. Maybe it is your philosophy that if someone want to commit suicide you should give them a gun, that is not mine.

Erik

"I think you get one thing wrong "real enough time" is worse than real time."

No. I asked you what you think the maximum latency is before 'real time' becomes what you call 'real enough time'. In other words, how slow does it have to be, in your opinion, before it is no longer real time.

"The maximim latency is waht the developer know (s)he can live with"

And there you are - it depends on the application.

"the upper limit for any processor is "what you need""

I'm glad you can see that - it it 'what you need' rather that 'what Erik thinks it should be'.

"Thus if it is "unusual" and no reason is given I try to provoke an answer."

No you don't - you just state that the poster is wrong. Take a look at what you said in this thread:

"if you need 12Mbyte, I think you are in deep doo-doo"

Without knowing anything about the application you've just stated that 12Mb of RAM is wrong.

"Due to your cuddeling no answer has yet come forth from the OP in this thread."

I've no idea what 'cuddeling' is, and I'm unable to see how you can know that whatever it is has affected whether the OP chooses to answer your question.

"I find it wrong to let someone trundle along and make a board with 12M of RAM if all they need is a few hundered k. Maybe it is your philosophy that if someone want to commit suicide you should give them a gun, that is not mine."

The guy has stated that 12Mb of memory is what he's been told to provide. Why do you insist on badgering him to justify this? The reason is that you just assume, as usual, that (quoting Walt) if things don't pass your personal litmus test they must be wrong.

"Thus if it is "unusual" and no reason is given I try to provoke an answer."

No you don't - you just state that the poster is wrong.
If you have a better way to provoke an answer, I would like to know it.

The guy has stated that 12Mb of memory is what he's been told to provide If "I have 12MB of external memory area" is being "told to provide", then the english language has changed.

"Due to your cuddeling no answer has yet come forth from the OP in this thread."

I've no idea what 'cuddeling' is, and I'm unable to see how you can know that whatever it is has affected whether the OP chooses to answer your question.
It sure has, his "answer" is "You guys are hilarious......LOL" instead of "I need 12 M because". re "cuddeling": when I try to make the OP state a why, you always come in and post "there is no reason to tell us why, we will give help you go anywhere you want without any concern for whether it is the right path.
Again, If someone ask for a gun, I check for a potential suicide, you provide the gun.

You do your thing, I do mine but PLEASE stay away from comments about my persona, if you have something techincal to add, by all means do.

Erik

To all:
I am sorry that when Stefan attacked my person, I responded the same way, I should not have done that.

"If you have a better way to provoke an answer, I would like to know it."

You could try the normal method - asking a polite question?

"If "I have 12MB of external memory area" is being "told to provide", then the english language has changed."

If you were to read his other posts all would be revealed:

"I am a Hardware Engineer being given requirements by software as far as how much memory."

"It sure has, his "answer" is "You guys are hilarious......LOL" instead of "I need 12 M because"."

You'll notice, however, that he made that comment before I entered into this thread. Do you not realise it's a reaction to *your* badgering?

"re "cuddeling": when I try to make the OP state a why, you always come in and post "there is no reason to tell us why, we will give help you go anywhere you want without any concern for whether it is the right path."

No, I'm just trying to achieve some sort of balance where posters are given some credit for having a clue, and opinions stated as though they were facts are not allowed to overwhelm the forum.

You still haven't explained what 'cuddeling' means.

"if you have something techincal to add, by all means do"

It's pointless - you'll defend an untenable position for a while, then you simply stop responding to points that you've been picked up on.

" I am sorry that when Stefan attacked my person, I responded the same way, I should not have done that."

I didn't notice a personal attack?

It's pointless - you'll defend an untenable position for a while, then you simply stop responding to points that you've been picked up on.

" I am sorry that when Stefan attacked my person, I responded the same way, I should not have done that."

I didn't notice a personal attack?

"It's pointless - you'll ....", If the above is not a "personal attack" pray tell what it is, I see nothing related to a technical problem.

Anyhow I will say no more since answering any of the above would be answering "comments on the person rather than the technical issue" with "comments on the person rather than the technical issue" which has no place in a technical forum.

As to the original issue, I still doubt that 12M is the right size, but that got lost in the "comments on the person rather than the technical issue"

Erik

Thanks William, I'll check it out..........That's all I was looking for.........And yes, I have been asked to provide a design for the maximum amount of memory in the case that we need it. Right now software is only using 2M.

Mike