I was hoping to find on-line manuals that I could print and read on the john. So far no luck. But what I really need is how to declare variables in C.
For example, I have a sample code that has the statement:
unsigned char
and
unsigned long
What do these mean and do they limit the declaration to integers. What do i declare if I want a floating point?
Also, someone told me I cant do floating point with a Keil Compiler because of licensing issues (I got my copy from Silicon Labs and have just registered it). I will eventually need to do trig functions. What do i have to get (buy) to complete my project?
You don't need an on-line manual, you need actual literature on the basics of C programming. The C51 compiler manual is not a substitute for a book about C, nor is it intended to be one.
K&R (i.e. "The C programming language" by B. W. Kernighan and D. M. Ritchie) has already been suggested, and I strongly second that recommendation. After all, it's _the_ book about C written by the guys who invented C in the first place.
I will eventually need to do trig functions.
Using trigonometric functions does not require use of floating point arithmetics. In fact, part of the skillset of an embedded developer is coming up with solutions that fit the capabilities of the target hardware - and the '51 is very much unsuited for floating point math (even though the C51 compiler will not try to keep the programmer from shooting himself in the foot there).
There are other solutions, like using lookup tables and interpolation.
The embedded developer should also have the skill to assess whether the use of a professionally written, optimised and debugged floating point math library such as that supplied with the C51 compiler would either positively or negatively impact his project.
Reinventing an already nicely developed wheel if not absolutely necessary would, frankly, be plain stupid.
Sharpening knives...
I'd like to think of it as Keil's loss. I'm going somewhere else if there is an option. I am sure there is an option. Like assembly language, lookup tables, and not Keil. Who needs to be part of the C community after this?
Anybody know of other development systems IO can consider to use with the Silicon Labs EVAL Kit? I've heard of http://www.avocetsystems.com.
Seems to me C was invented to get the job done fast and not efficient.
C was designed to be as close to the silicon as you can get without using assembly, actually. Hence, programs in C _can_ be very efficient.
I just bought the development package thru Silicon Labs and Keil doesn't want to support it and I am having difficulty ascertaining what I must spend to lift it's 4K limits.
Did you contact your local distributor of Keil products? He should be more than happy to provide you with a quote.
Well, how 'bout that. A fan.
Thanks for your comments. I'll have to put those in my scrapbook.
I'm at Renco Encoders now doing other strange stuff. Working on a real neat encoder solution. So simple I am surprised no one has thought of it. Well, maybe they have, I just cant uncover it.
Maybe I'll have one last hurrah before exiting ;)
Furthermore, from what I can tell, there must be better solutions than that offered by Keil, anyhow.
In another forum there was a "which '51 compiler is bast" thread and several SDCC users stated "Keil is best" an IAR user stated "I think Keil is better". NONE stated that another product was better than Keil '51.
Erik
I'd like to think of it as Keil's loss. I'm going somewhere else if there is an option.
Hmmm. For someone with 30 years of experience in the field you seem to have an awfully light trigger. Running away like a startled deer, just because you witnessed a bit of banter among other users of the tool, and even "liking" that? Get real, mon.
I've been doing micro-controllers for 30+ years in assembly language. Sure, my experience is probably limited compared to you guys but give me a break.
On what basis should we have done that? Read your own OP again, slowly. What in there would make you guess that the author is anything other than a complete newbie on his first microcontroller project ever?
Calling that conclusion premature would be doing it an unjustified favour.
I am having difficulty ascertaining what I must spend to lift it's 4K limits. What crap.
crap? crap? I believe this is a feature of most commercial tool chains. what did you expect exactly? the source code along with the eval. binaries? and another thing: I also have expressed criticism here in the past regarding the tool chain and some of its extentions (FlashFS...) but you would not see me here calling it names like "crap". you give us a break - now often have you used the product to make sure a statement?
I meant: "such a statement?"
Sorry.
"crap" was referring the whole situation and not to the Keil product.
Perhaps my frustration should be directed towards Silicon Labs as they are the ones that sold me a development kit with a crippled Keil product.
Last embedded project I did, the manufacturer supplied the evaluation board and the development system (equivalent to Keil) all included for $79. Came with everything I needed to finish the project and we are in production. That is what I expected FROM SILICON LABS (emphasis - not shouting). I was wrong to blame Keil.
What I did not expect was the fight that insued herein because of my initial stupid questions, that, BTW, were promptly answered by the first poster.
I am sorry if I offended anybody. I am sure my comments could have been misinterpretted. I do favor assembly language over higher level languages and my comments about "waste" and "inefficiencies" are my opinion only and based on my beliefs. This was going to be my first C based project.
In my experience (only 25 years, I'm afraid), it is standard practice that the tools supplied with "dev kits" are just "evaluation" versions.
And free "evaluation" versions are always "crippled" in some way or another.
(in fact, I think the SiLabs kit gives you a slightly less limited version than the "standard" free evaluation?)
The exception is the single-source proprietary architectures like PIC and AVR - where the chip maker knows that the tools are useless with any chips other than their own. Therefore the tools can simply be considered as part of the marketing budget!
And free "evaluation" versions are always "crippled" in some way or another.<p>
"Ain't no such thing as a free lunch."
;)
And so we live in two different worlds. I have learned much. Thanks.
Good point. I said nothing about free. It cost me 79 buck-a-roos. ;)
and my comments about "waste" and "inefficiencies" are my opinion only and based on my beliefs. This was going to be my first C based project.
I think everybody moving from asm to C had such beliefs initially. After a while you learn that C is the way to go where nominal "waste and inefficiencies" do not matter and the percentage where (you think) it matters (and you write an assembly module) will be constantly shrinking, but - in my opinion, never go to zero.
"I think everybody moving from asm to C had such beliefs initially"
and it is interesting to see the same beliefs emerging in people moving from C to C++...
Yes. The conversation usually goes like this:
Have you used C++ on the 8051?
No! It's for PCs. Too slow. Too much overhead.
Have you actually tried it?
[silence]
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