I,ve installed the Compiler and I can,t get even the simplest code to compile properely.
Anyone know where the fix for this bug is?
Or is it a limit of the demonstration version?
void main(void) { cout << "Hello world!"; }
what is it the compileer you installled?
keil c????
if you be answer keil c then code you give is bad and not compiler
you code is c++ but compile is c
c not thinking about cout like this you be not good and give errror
Can someone answer my question in English please!
"Well, why do Ceibo have a product to do what you have been saying is not suitable?"
Why do people who never drive outside the city limits have 4x4s? Why do people fit spoilers to cars that cannot possible reach a sufficient speed for them to be of any advantage? etc, etc...
I think you'll find that Ceibo is the only C++ product for the 8051, whereas there are many C compilers (some not even full ANSI) for the 8051 - that fits very well with the general opinion that C++ is not generally suitable for 8051 products.
"I assume that they do have customers for such a product otherwise they would be out of business - Right?"
Not necessarily: the 8051 C++ is not their only product - maybe not even a major product for them.
"Maybe I won,t be able to afford such a big turkey this year"
Buy an 8051 C++ cross-compiler - you might find that you do have a big turkey...
;-)
"Ok,
The general view from this forum is that C++ an the 8052 don't mix."
Filip,
Their real statement is somewhat more basic than that, but may not quite have gotten through. When you're programming for an "embedded" processor, various assumptions that are easy-to-make and almost guaranteed to be "correct" in a desktop environment cease to make any sense. Imagine this situation: Someone could have an 8052 based system that has all of the following:
1. A large LED bar sign that can scroll text 2. A small LCD display 3. A serial port
All of these bits of hardware could be considered the "console" referred to by cout. Which one is appropriate? Further, what code should be generated to control one of them when you use "cout <<"? These are the kinds of things that have to be considered in an embedded project.
I will make a prediction: If you buy the Ceibo package, it will have no idea how to compile "cout <<" unless you customize some library or at least tell it in detail what type of display and controller chip are attached to your board and where.
-Jay Daniel
"either they are wrong or you are wrong"
Of course, it's not as simple as that!
Every rule has its exceptions, and every market has a niche where the specific conditions mean that the general rules require a different interpretation.
You came here without even understanding that there is any difference between C and C++ - do you not think that there are probably plenty more issues of which you are not (yet) aware, but of which others here will have extensive experience...?
As Per says, "Why do I get the feeling that you are carefully avoiding the question about any existing knowledge of embedded development?"
"TV Shop has a huge number of products that exists, but are no good. The world is full of products that exists because it is possible to make them, not because they solve a problem people want to have solved. Not because they actually works."
Have you never heard the term, "Snake Oil"...?
en.wikipedia.org/.../Snake_oil
You guys REALLY don't get it!
I've now noticed that IAR produce a C/C++ compiler for the 8051.
So that's two products I've found that do what you people say shouldn't be done!
Someone in those companies must have seen an opportunity to fill the need for C++ on the 8051.
Maybe, just maybe, for some projects it would be a quick way of getting the job done.
I'll have a look on the IAR forum. Who knows, it may even have people on that one who have slightly less narrow minded views.
I think you don't understand what companies do.
Companies don't exist to fill needs.
Companies do exist to make money, by making products that there is a market for. It does not matter whether the product is necessary, useful or sensible. The only thing that matters is that there are people who will pay for it (or that can be talked into paying for it). In fact, there are many, many necessary, useful and sensible products that do not get made because there aren't enough people that can pay for them.
If you had read this thread, then you would have already seen a mention of the one scenario where such a compiler makes sense - when there is an existing, large code base that needs to be run on an 8051 without porting it to a more appropriate language.
Also, you could already be halfway done with your project if you had taken advice from experienced embedded developers, instead of arguing with them. Or at least you could have read the specs of your hardware. Simply using cout and expecting text to magically appear on your display makes me believe that you expect your 8051 to work like a PC. It doesn't.
Who knows, it may even have people on that one who have slightly less narrow minded views.
"I know only C++, so any problem must be solved in C++" isn't narrow-minded ?
All the other people on this thread also know C++. They know C. They know assembly. They know the hardware architecture of the 8051. They have a broad perspective and know that and why C++ is not the right tool for simple 8-bit devices.
Anyway, good luck at what you're trying to do. You'll need it.
You seem to think that C++ with virtual methods is good. The 8051 chips hates function pointers, and a virtual method is a form of a function ponter.
You seem to think that object-orientation with dynamically created objects is good. The 8051 has too little memory to work with dynamic memory. Even if you can implement it, you run a large risk of failing because of memory fragmentation. So forget new/delete.
You probably haven't realized that the '51 chips are TRUE 8-bit chips. They are not 16-bit chips with an 8-bit bus like the 8088 was on the original PC, more than 20 years ago. The register size is smaller than the short or int data types, so you don't have atomic add/sub/mul/div. How much code do you think a software div contains?
The processor doesn't have a file system, so forget about file streams.
The target doesn't have an OS, and the processor are just minimally able to host a minimal OS. So forget about threads or tasks.
There is no driver layer. Every single hardware peripherial needs bit-fiddling code to function. Code written by you. Or written and uploaded by narrow minded old fools who doesn't know that C++ has come to town.
The processor contains true boolean variables. But the variables are not actually boolean true/false, but actually on/off.
The processor requires special language extensions for tagging of variables to inform in which memory areas they should be stored.
The application has to settle for using a subset of the C runtime library. A huge number of the C library doesn't make sens. A even huger part of the C++ standard libraries makes sens - or can even be used - on a '51 platform.
You have no experience of embedded development, but instead of listening, you think everyone is narrow-minded.
You are the drunk who stands on a rooftop and claims you can fly.
The problem is that you claim that you know C++, but your posts gives very clear indications that you do not actually know so much about C++. You do not seem to know what makes C++ ticks - what it looks like under the hood. For embedded programming on this scale, you have to know the inner workings. Programming on a macro scale does not work.
So you get a C++ compiler. You then have to use the C++ compiler to write a mostly C-ish program, because most of the C++ concepts and libraries are not available. Who do you expect to fool with that?
You have still totally missed the point. The people who are on this forum have already got things done. We are not arguing based on "maybe" or "i like to" or "it would be good to". We are arguing based on existing products available all around you. Real, physical, working factory-produced products.
"Companies don't exist to fill needs."
What a cynical view of life!
Ok, Mr Henry Ford wanted to make money but part of the dream was to give transport to the masses.
Part of marketing is understanding what people want!
I want to use C++ because I know C++.
I say that in the same way that I said I want a response in English. It is because I talk English!
To do something you are familiar with is quicker than doing something totally foreign.
To think knowledge in one area of life is directly applicable to other areas of life is not faster. It's just plain dumb!
Not knowing the relationship between C and C++ questions your C++ knowledge.
To think companies focuses on customer needs instead of what makes money is naive.
Have you picked up the phone and called IAR? Do they recommend C or C++ for a '51 target? Have you asked how much of the C++ concepts and libraries you can actually use?
Have you prepared critical questions to ask them, or do you make your neck as long as possible and tells your suppliers: please put a noose around my neck - I'm gullible?
This isn't about what you know - but what you don't know. If you focus your life around what you know, you will never grow. Right now you are a man with a hammer, desperately seeing everything as a nail.
Please define narrowminded...
I said PART of marketing I said PART of the dream
Surely you would agree that it is always better to build upon what you know rather than always going for something different.
A skyscraper is built of same style blocks one upon another. If they were all different then the structure almost certainly wouldn't stand!
I do not need to define narrow minded - Just use your favourite search engine.
In this instance, dismissing C++ out of academic principal I would say is narrow minded.
Of course. I would even say that all of marketing is understanding what people will want to buy, or what they can be made want to buy. It is all about business - if people will pay for it, then is is economically sensible for a company to make.
That, of course, does not mean at all that the product has to be technically sensible. What the customer does with the product does not concern the company, as long as they get paid.
We've already discussed this: If you know C++, then you also know C (if you do not know C, please stop claiming that you know C++).
I am sorry, but the hardware you have to work with isn't going to accomodate your wishes. Humans have this capability called "learning", while your hardware can only be used as-is, or replaced completely.
The concepts of C++ are totally foreign to your 8051. That is precisely why is does not make sense to try programming it in C++.
Hello ? The other posters on this thread are experienced embedded developers. That means they have already written code for real-life projects that are being sold on the market. Their views and opinions stem from years of practical, hands-on experience with the 8051 architecture.
The person who has a purely academic point of view is you.
sir filip
you be needing project work soon?
i help you please
i say send info and i see what to do for work
if working c then you think be happy yes??
I know what it means. I'm just very curious to know what you think it means.
It is an academcial goal to use as high-level language as possible for all development. It a practical rule to not use a higher-level tool than the target can handle in a good way. You call our arguments academical???
Many of us _are_ experienced C++ developers, which is something you seems to constantly ignore.
Don't you wonder just a little bit why I claim to be an experienced C++ developer, and still says that C is a better language to use for a '51 chip?
Don't you get a feeling that there _may_ be parts of the equation that you haven't seen yet?
How long was it since you left school?
How many real projects (embedded or not) have you worked with?
Haven't you noticed that real projects tend to have a large number of mutually exclusive requests - something that didn't exist in school assignments. In real projects, you always have to compromise!
"I do not need to define narrow minded - Just use your favourite search engine"
Just tried doing a search for that on my favourite search engine and got nothing!?
Trouble is, my favourite search engine is http://www.booble.com ;)
Maybe you should have been more specific.
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